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Deep Dive #417/20 attendees

The Illusion of Thinking

Do LLMs "Understand"?

July 24, 2025SFU Vancouver2 required readings
"I think we feel like AIs 'understand' and I'm quite sure they don't. They manipulate information. They predict next words. They appear to understand—but they do not."
Participant J

Interactive Explorations

Test the fragility of reasoning. Is it true logic, or just fragile pattern matching?

The Logic Crystal

Coherence: 100%
Current Prompt
Context: "Given that David has 3 apples..."
Standard (Grounded)

Changing names shouldn't break logic... right?

0%

Central Question

"What does it mean to "understand"? Do LLMs have understanding or just simulate it?"

Outcome

Critical distinction emerged: Functional understanding (AI can do this) vs Phenomenal understanding (requires consciousness). Set up the P-zombie debate.

Key Debates

  • 1LLMs simulate understanding without experiencing it—true or false?
  • 2Is "functional understanding" real understanding?
  • 3If AI can manipulate psychology, does it need to experience emotions?

Notable Quotes

"I think we feel like AIs 'understand' and I'm quite sure they don't. They manipulate information. They predict next words. They appear to understand—but they do not."
Participant J
"Understanding is a qualia-laden state—it feels like something to 'get it.' AI lacks that."
Participant J
"Google AI mode says: Understanding has a felt component. If the recipient suspects no authentic being is there, trust collapses."
Participant L
"If AI reads every psychology textbook ever written, can it practice manipulation? Yes—ChatGPT does that. So having a theory of mind in a practical sense doesn't require experiencing emotions, just decoding the story."
Participant E
"LLM hallucination is equivalent to human creativity—we just don't say most of the things we are thinking out loud."
Participant J

Required Readings

The Illusion of Thinking (GSM-Symbolic)
Shojaee et al. (Apple Research)
AlphaEvolve Paper
DeepMind

Stats

Attendance17/20
Duration2 hours
PriceFree
Readings2 items